It's an accusation I see a lot. The inference is supposed to be something like "So you don't believe in God? Fine, but in that case why all the fuss and bother about something you don't believe in? Just shut up, already."
Problem is, those nonexistent gods might not affect us, but belief in those gods does.
Christians in particular, and the religious in general, have what amounts to a state-approved lobby in the shape of the Lords Spiritual—the bishops who sit in the House of Lords.
Equal rights for LGBT people are held back in many countries by campaigns based almost entirely on religious belief.
Abortion rights, the same.
I'm told that climate change is impossible because God wouldn't let it happen. Therefore we need do nothing about it.
Ditto peak oil, or any other possible limit on resources.
Virtually useless abstinence-only sex-education is being pushed into schools, based entirely on religious belief.
Paedophile rapists have been both enabled and protected because of the ludicrous belief that the public image of a church is more important than justice and protection of the innocent.
The mutilation of children's genitals—often performed in unsanitary conditions by people with no qualification in surgery or medicine, and always absent (by definition) of any informed consent on the part of the person being operated on—is excused and encouraged on religious grounds.
Children are regularly segregated into different schools based on the religion of their parents, a policy which creates, and supports the continuance of, inward-looking, self-imposed religious ghettos.
The largest Christian denomination in the world has an official policy that forbids contraception, and enforces this in poorer countries by threatening the withholding of aid. Its representatives have even made the preposterous claim—believed, unfortunately, by millions who don't have the education to know better—that condoms spread AIDS. In fact, they do the precise opposite. This stance and proclamation is tantamount to religiously-promoted murder.
People of no faith, in many countries, or of a faith different to that of the majority, are segregated, discriminated against, imprisoned and even killed, either by their compatriots or their state.
Science education—particularly biology—is being held back in many countries on religious grounds.
Science and research—particularly biology—is being held back in many countries on religious grounds.
The loss of revenue because of tax exemptions to religious bodies and some of their employees, is simply staggering.
Religion may not be—almost certainly isn't—the major cause of war, but it certainly makes a damn good rallying call to persuade young people who might have been doing something good for their fellow human beings, to kill and die.
I have seen children, or semi-adults at most, harassed, threatened and bullied both by other children and by adults, for speaking against religion. Not in some Islamic theocracy, but in the UK and the USA—supposedly free civilised countries.
Children die—again in supposedly civilised western countries—of what should be minor ailments, because their parents cling to the idea of faith-healing.
I know that within five minutes of posting this, I'll think of more ways that religion affects my life and other atheists'.
I certainly respect your right to your private belief. And when that belief truly is private, I'll shut up.
—Daz
Reblogged this on Rants Ravings and Revelations and commented:
If the various Religious crowds can Preach on corners, have their own T.V channels, knock door to door with pamphlets, etc…
I think it only right and fair that Atheists can express their opinions. Besides I’ve never heard of any “Atheist Crusades” committing genocide to spread their Non-Religion, or any other actions performed in the name of Non-Religious-Belief that hurt or killed anyone.
Reblogged this on Tafacory Ideas and commented:
I personally have not heard this objection, but this is a great response.
It’s a cheap shot, definitely. I also think at least some of the people making that argument underestimate the (often negative) impact their beliefs have on others.
Hiya Daniel.
I agree. Many do underestimate it, or have just plain never given it a thought. Like most privilege, it’s easily overlooked by those with the privilege.
Religion (and its associated evils) is not the same as god, and I think that is where believers like myself come into conflict with many atheists. Everything that you have said above is true but it seems to me that it is the manipulation of faith by unscrupulous power blocks interested in maintaining their own privilege over the wellbeing of others that is responsible, rather than a personal belief in the divine.
I’d certainly agree that much of the bad ascribed to religion should be ascribed to the use of religion, both by politicians and the hierarchies of the religions themselves to further their secular ambitions.
I would argue, though, that the core principle of religion, faith—belief without evidence—and particularly the promotion of faith as a virtue, makes believers (in general—each individual should, of course, be considered on their own merits) particularly vulnerable to such manipulation. Accept X on faith, and you can make no real case for not accepting Y on faith, without throwing doubt on X.
Various atheist blogs seem to be coming around to the idea of encouraging Christians to read the Bible from end to end. This would seem to be an excellent idea, how could the true believers object?
[...] anything inherently wrong with such criticism. Daz addressed the topic in his recent post “For People Who Don’t Believe In God, You Atheists Sure Do Talk About Him A Lot” and I think he made his point very clearly and [...]
Stonyground
Well, at the very least, it’d be a great cure for insomnia…
Reblogged this on rowanwphillips.
Very nice list you have there and there are many more additions to that list that you couldn’t possibly think of all at once. My pet peeve with those who oppose same-sex marriage here in the U.S. is that their initial argument is that they are the ones being segregated against. So apparently, when people that are segregated against want equality, the segregators are being segregated against. That is not a logical syllogism.
Thanks for the post, you may enjoy some of mine here http://whoneedsselfesteem.wordpress.com/
Reblogged this on The Secular Philosopher.
Reblogged on The Secular Philosopher Great post! It feels good to know there are so many more Atheists out there like myself and that we actually voice our opinions now, although, that opinion regardless of how harmless it is gets deemed as “hateful” or “attacking their beliefs”. I do have one issue, if I may, that could also add to this thorough list. The fact that, in a poll, 53% of Americans said they would not vote for an Atheist, regardless of how qualified he/she may be. Looking at the numbers, Atheists are less likely to be elected than anyone on the survey.
Religious Affiliation Poll
Great work on the post! Keep it up, you have a fantastic blog here.
Great blog Daz. It’s nice to see it all put so eloquently.
What you have left unproven is the link between theism and the evils of the world. There are examples of child abuse in the church. If we got rid of belief in God, would child abuse go away? No, it just would happen outside the church, as it already does. What about rights for homosexuals? Considering there are religious people who have positive and negative views toward homosexuals and non-religious people who have positive and negative views, the effect of belief in God is less than clear. Yes some of the things you see in the world are sometimes participated in by some people who believe in God, but that hardly proves that it is belief in God that creates the problems in the world.
Stephen
Would child abuse go away? No. But the only large organisation which systematically covers it up and enables it is religious; the only large organisation who—by being people’s intercessionaries to God—have been so revered that even the victims have reported crimes (for all the good it did them) to the organisation itself rather than the proper authorities, which would be the police.
Some Catholics seem to have this misunderstanding, yet its so simple. It’s not the abuse per se, though that’s been on a monumental scale. It’s the cover-ups, the movings-on of priests known to be abusers to new hunting-grounds. It’s the fact that the church has placed its own reputation ahead of the safety of children placed in its care. And it has done all that whilst claiming to be the guardian and champion of morals and justice.
Are you seriously contending that 99.9% of the organised resistance to LGBT rights isn’t based on religious views? Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick!
Please tell me, how would it be possible to claim that “marriage is ordained by God to be between one man and one woman” if belief in gods didn’t exist?
Please tell me how it would be possible to claim that a foetus has a soul, if one lacked a belief in souls.
Then please note: The OP is not primarily about direct injustices. It is about the fact that your religion enters my life every time you get free parking whilst attending church, whilst I—parking three spaces away, on the same day—have to pay for my parking. Even your fucking churches are tax free. Every time somebody passes a law based on religious sensibilities, I am supposed to obey that law; which means in effect that I’m being forced to obey the tenets of your religion whether I want to or not.
It’s about the fact that, in a hundred little ways, I am forced to abide by other people’s dogma whilst being told that it would be rude to criticise their “private” beliefs.
And all in the name of a system of belief whose central pillar is supported by not one single speck of evidence.
This is what’s ‘new’ about the so-called new atheism: we’re no longer being respectfully quiet and accepting ‘my god said so’ as an excuse, as a special no-criticise zone. Because that worked so well for the last two thousand fucking years years, didn’t it?